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Survival. I think it is time to talk about Climate Change!

Le Loup

Rüdiger Nehberg
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Something to think about .
All the animals on earth have the right to survive , humans are no different in that way .
This idea that all the animals belong in the forest except humans is nonsense , we are part of nature too .

Believing that lie is stupid .

Right now there is a fight between the Aibika , Pumpkins, Sweet potato, Taro, Cherry tomatoes , Potatoes, Snake beans , bitter melons , paw paw etc , * you get the picture for the best spot in the sunlight .

If there be rain , explaining these things to city people who imagine without a clue , so they can then buy more prepper stuff to try satisfy their obsessive consumer madness . Like they have been sold.

A bit like that song “ whoa oh oh mexico , I’ve never really been there so I don’t really know.”

People in the depression would call it common sense . No labels needed.

Buy rice buy flour , even then if you think long term .

If you have a staple , you have a meal, what you can add to it is a luxury then ,
Protein of the day .look at pacific islands and Thursday islanders T.i’s etc , more food than you can poke a stick at.
Good post Kindling & I totally agree. Purchasing dry foods is definitely the way to go. Obviously you are right about us being a part of the natural environment, but did you know that trees are little different to animals? Trees feel pain, trees can breath, hear & see, & they can communicate with one another. Think about that next time you go bush. If you ever had the feeling you were being watched, you were right.
Regards, Keith.
 

Le Loup

Rüdiger Nehberg
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There was a thing way back in recent history ..
Victory Gardens ...
People turned front / back yards into vegi patches .
Or got flower pots and grew edible plants that would grow in a pot .
In the USA they did community gardens ....
But for some reason the US FEDS seem to be trying to stop home growers ....
Some places , it's against the law to grow vegies ... The land of the free Hu ?
Good post 4570, the UK had allotments, gardens you could rent, I think they still exist. My parents grew their own food, & my family carries on that tradition.
Keith.
Climate Change gardening 1.jpgClimate Change Gardening 5.jpgClimate Change Gardening 6.jpgClimate Change Gardening 7.jpgClimate Change Gardening 3.jpg
 

Le Loup

Rüdiger Nehberg
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Yeah , the roos / wallabies / rabbits / Mice / rats and even birds ( seed ) ..
Then there are snails and slugs ...

Tried to grow strawberries here ... And all we did was feed the slugs & snails ..
Need many many boxes of snail bait this winter & spring to try and clear them out ..
But if the neighbors do nothing ?
And those birds go after our blue berries ! Every year is a battle against the birds .


2022 will be the great slug fest here ...
We had a slug fest about 10 years ago , cleared out hundreds of snails ..
U wouldn't think there could be so many .

Yeah , if you went bush .. U would definitely need to fence off an area for food ( vegetables ) ..
As well go out at night to clear out the snails and slugs ..
No wonder farmers spray death on their crops !
We solved the snail & slug problem by free ranging khaki campbell ducks in the garden 4570.
Keith.
Flood, fox, ducks, dam. From Drought to Flood 040.JPG
 

old4570

Ray Mears
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They did a study a long time ago !
And if you get a microphone that Receives on the right frequency ......................... You can listen to plants scream out in (?) pain .
You could hear the grass make sound as people walked on it ..
And plants , when having branches broken - would make a screaming sound !
So , might be good we can't hear them .

Imagine if walking on grass was like walking on cats tails ! That would be disconcerting !
So yeah , respect the plants !
I even watch out for ants and am considerate enough to relocate spiders found inside the house ...
But then if they resist relocation outside , I may slaughter them ! ( Whitetails )
 

Kindlling

Les Hiddins
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Good post Kindling & I totally agree. Purchasing dry foods is definitely the way to go. Obviously you are right about us being a part of the natural environment, but did you know that trees are little different to animals? Trees feel pain, trees can breath, hear & see, & they can communicate with one another. Think about that next time you go bush. If you ever had the feeling you were being watched, you were right.
Regards, Keith.
Well I do think the bushcraft folks are in a good position to have awareness of nature ,
As they are not tearing around the place noisily like some other pursuits . They can get in tune with the place, which pays dividends with survival .

Fred bear the bow hunter and maker , reckoned
“You can learn more about hunting deer with a bow and arrow in a week than a gun hunter will learn in his entire life”.

Not that we need to be going and killing all the beasts or trees in the forest and I don’t , however
It goes to show how paying attention you learn a lot more than relying on the big modern crutches .

You’ve got to pay attention and listen to these things talking too .
You will have better respect and appreciation .
 

WanderOn

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They did a study a long time ago !
And if you get a microphone that Receives on the right frequency ......................... You can listen to plants scream out in (?) pain .
You could hear the grass make sound as people walked on it ..
And plants , when having branches broken - would make a screaming sound !
So , might be good we can't hear them .

Imagine if walking on grass was like walking on cats tails ! That would be disconcerting !
So yeah , respect the plants !
I even watch out for ants and am considerate enough to relocate spiders found inside the house ...
But then if they resist relocation outside , I may slaughter them ! ( Whitetails )
We’re the same. Teaching our kids to look after what’s around them.
Poor old huntsman are the spiders I struggle with. Little buggers are so damn quick and give me the hee bee gee bees. Try not to hurt them but for anyone watching on is a good laugh.
 

old4570

Ray Mears
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Yeah , some times you see more standing still in the bush . Rather than moving about !
I remember one day being some what camed out with a bow in my hand and just standing between two trees to hide my silhouette .
I heard this god awful loud bang bang coming my way .. Then suddenly there was this massive red roo standing not half a meter in front of me completely un aware of my presence . I stood there for ? how long just looking at this thing / smelling it / and noticing it had a joey in the pouch ..
Then it calmly hoped off ... I think I had been standing between those two trees for maybe 5 minutes just scanning the ground before me when the roo showed up .

What is it they say .......... Look more than you walk !
 

old4570

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We’re the same. Teaching our kids to look after what’s around them.
Poor old huntsman are the spiders I struggle with. Little buggers are so damn quick and give me the hee bee gee bees. Try not to hurt them but for anyone watching on is a good laugh.
I love Huntsmen ..
When I was in Highschool .. One winter there was a huntsman that I would wake up to on the wall right in front of me ..
I think it was warming itself with my breath ! I guess some would freak out at that ? I thought it cute !
 

Le Loup

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he natural environment is there for us to use for our benefit, but this does NOT mean that we should cut forests down to make furniture to make money, this does not mean that we can shoot other animals just for sport. I too like huntsman, they wander our house eating insects & bugs, & living in a forest, we get our fair share of flies & other insects.

GEORGE.jpg
This is George, I daresay by now George has passed on to the happy hunting grounds, but we have a constant supply of other Georges in our home.
Keith.
 

Kindlling

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Yeah , some times you see more standing still in the bush . Rather than moving about !
I remember one day being some what camed out with a bow in my hand and just standing between two trees to hide my silhouette .
I heard this god awful loud bang bang coming my way .. Then suddenly there was this massive red roo standing not half a meter in front of me completely un aware of my presence . I stood there for ? how long just looking at this thing / smelling it / and noticing it had a joey in the pouch ..
Then it calmly hoped off ... I think I had been standing between those two trees for maybe 5 minutes just scanning the ground before me when the roo showed up .

What is it they say .......... Look more than you walk !

Thats an awesome close call OLD , nature just does it better .
I love that stuff stitting and animals showing up like watching a sea eagle eat a fish in a tree fork the birds are interesting in town even , was sitting on a creek bank once out bush and a platypus popped out of a burrow a few feet above the waterline across from me , had no idea it was there until it revealed its hidden spot . Another time the cattle dog and I had a sow (female pig) and her suckers come moseying rooting up the bush really close in front of us as we sat silently in awe , this went on for a good amount of time before she smelled us and took off with the youngens .

We get to see the best of it thats for sure , you really cant buy these experiences and have to go off the beaten track , sometimes nature shows its wild side too , witnessing the struggles.

Being mobile has its merits , regarding the being in the right place at the right time .
Sometimes then the sitting still.
 

Kindlling

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We have only 3 years or less within which to change society & stop the burning of fossil fuels if we are to avoid the very worst climate change disasters, this does NOT give us much time. If this is not done, then society/civilisation may collapse within the next 20 years, this will be TEOTWAWKI. Between now & the possible collapse, there is going to be a lot of suffering & death, so I think it is about time that we started accepting this & discussing how we can give ourselves the best chance of surviving anything that can be survived. That said, todays children may not survive climate change, that is how bad climate change really is.
As Bushcrafters we have many skills, so how can we best put these bushcraft skills to use to aid our survival? Are any of you prepared to leave the city if you have to? Do you have any idea where you will go if you have to leave your home? Are any of you thinking of coming together as a group to aid your survival?
Keith.
View attachment 29124

To the question of coming together for survival Keith , No not really .

People who are acquaintances where you can find them however are useful for keeping sane , when the masses are sleeping .

If you have got a network of people or family who are not asleep then you are lucky . If you have a couple good friends in your inner circle that are not a liability your lucky too ,

I can picture how people will respond when things get bad , like those characters in disaster movies , you know like the screaming idot , the self preservation at any other persons cost idiot , the running up the stairs the wrong way break a high heel idiot and so on , the naive go to give the murdering marauders flowers idiot who tries to reason with them and gets killed , the can’t keep quiet gives your position away idiot, its funny.

Some acquaintances in the community can be useful and I often think “ I would not mind being in the trenches with them if SHTF “.
And can have a chat about the realities .

An example of a good larger community without needing it be too close is the butchers here ,

When there was supply chain issues , another butcher that got their meat in from packaging plants had to close their doors until things got sorted out during the ’ * virus ‘.

My butcher has local animal bodies bought in , and does mobile butchering plus knows local farmers with stock. Might not always get what you came for though you’ll get something.

They will also drop stuff off to me if they are out and about , so its a handy relationship as I can appreciate .

I sometimes try and do them a favor also Where I can . Goes around comes around.
 
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Kindlling

Les Hiddins
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I really like this saying for perspective .

The optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel ,

The pessimist sees a black hole ,

The realist sees a train coming ,

And the train driver sees 3 idiots standing on the train tracks .
 

Le Loup

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I really like this saying for perspective .

The optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel ,

The pessimist sees a black hole ,

The realist sees a train coming ,

And the train driver sees 3 idiots standing on the train tracks .
Good one kindling. None of them should be standing on the train tracks. No matter what they think, they should be somewhere else preparing.
Keith.
 

Randall

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I found the links to the doomsday prepper series; they were produced by National Geographic. Two series, 1 and 2. For those here who don't know, each prepper usually has a theory as to what catastrophe is more likely to happen - there seems to be as many theories as there are preppers. I imagine this was National Geographic looking for preppers with different theories in an attempt to get an overview of the prepping world.

There's a nice little summary by National Geographic at the end of each episode that points out the strengths and weaknesses of each prepper's preparedness based on their own (the prepper's) catastrophe theory. It could be a good source of discussion. As I've already said, for most if not all of these people, it seems to have taken up most of their personal time; a huge commitment in time, effort and money. Despite this, many of them seem incredibly vulnerable - all that effort could easily be taken from them. Many have created something that they are tied to and have to protect if their theories come true. Seeing what they have done is a great way of seeing what's good and what isn't so good before starting such a venture.

Of course we also have our own resources here at bushcraftoz, especially those by Dean (waveman) - firelighting, and most things with sharp edges, and Keith (Le Loup) insights into his way of life which show us how we can live without the industrial era stuff. If the world was without oil right now we'd supposedly return to a pre industrial life; that's all it would take. Consider no ships, or air transport (cargo or passengers) - it would bring an end to most of the world's overseas trade almost instantly. That's just one aspect. I can imagine many in Ukraine would be living like this right now, although still with much of the food and tools of this era - but tools and devices that don't rely on grid or battery power? The only power many of them could use right now would be solar generated or some other kind of small portable generator powered by wind, running water, methane (sewerage) etc. Would they have been prepared for this?

Series 1

Series 2
 
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Randall

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An example of a good larger community without needing it be too close is the butchers here ,

When there was supply chain issues , another butcher that got their meat in from packaging plants had to close their doors until things got sorted out during the ’ * virus ‘.

My butcher has local animal bodies bought in , and does mobile butchering plus knows local farmers with stock. Might not always get what you came for though you’ll get something.

They will also drop stuff off to me if they are out and about , so its a handy relationship as I can appreciate .

I sometimes try and do them a favor also Where I can . Goes around comes around.
That could be what happens Kindling. Communities used to be like this pre industrial - think agricultural era. Things started to change with the arrival of industry - people had to move to work etc - we became more mobile. Communities were generally much closer than they are now. We don't know what direction the future will take; we do know that basic resources and goods will be an issue at any time (water, air quality, oil, power, food, toilet paper :D ). We've already witnessed those shortages / issues to varying degrees.

As a side note, through my various outdoor pursuits I have discovered that you can't tell who the tough ones are by the way they look or act. I once led a group of tourists through a boulder strewn chasm. We were hopping from boulder to boulder - these were stuck in the chasm, suspended about 15m from the ground below if you could fall without hitting another boulder. There were a couple of German muscled athletic looking dudes and a couple of old Australian ladies. I positioned myself in precarious gaps to help if needed. The German dudes were scared shitless - they'd never experienced any potential danger like this; the old ladies were quite comfortable :D
 
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old4570

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Problem is the crazy number of threats ! ( Potential / likely / realistic )

1) Solar flare that cooks the earth - Very possible ! There was a large flare a few months ago that could have been seriously destructive if the Earth had been in it's path .
2) Biological ... Covid was a pimple .... And the world dealt with that pimple very poorly ... A score out of 10 ? ( 1 - 10 )
3) Chemical ... This could be anything ! From man made to natural to space born !
4) Weather - Ever more likely ! Lot's of variety to chose from .
5) Pestilence - Think , grass hoppers , mice , insects .........

Can you plan for everything ? Yes and no !
Some things , you just got to be prepare to roll with the punches . And for that , you just might need True Grit !
The person that survives is the person that refused to lie down and die !

If you really put your mind too it !
How many likely / possible scenarios can you come up with ?
One only needs to look back at history and the disasters that have been , to see the disasters that are headed our way !
 

Kindlling

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Its a kind of de evoultion taking place .
What was built that was not on a sustainable base is crumbling .
Too many people ,too much selfish corrupt thinking , is it sustainable if humans found a way to harness more resources ?
Possible to an extent , though what is the point in that . Thinking they are the centre of the universe and everything should exist to serve them .

If the problem is not fixed and the best humans can do is hoard resources to ‘prep’ for a while , then try to rebuild more of the same then as far as I am concerned don’t bother saving them at all .


Its the ‘swiss cheese effect’ now that is the collapse , whether it ends in a crescendo of some huge climax I wont speculate ,

If there is laws of nature , there is laws of mathematics too , so although the greedy try to re shuffle the derivatives and engineer globalism and the stock market ,
Its failure causes tension globally for power and money , what they try to sure up as an imbalance weighs on the other side of the equation and spirals .

The Swiss cheese Is where all the holes line up at once , like where economies collapse and drag others down , where money printing causes inflation , where wars cause supply chain issues , where protectionism collapses the whole system that is being fought to defend causes its own demise fighting the mechanisms it created to exist .

let them perish I say . There is no easy way they will learn , they will have to learn the hard way . I am torn as to whether to give help here for that reason :)

The agricultural era Randall , the cities will be madness and spread out I would say when resources collapse , some will cling to the system .
Seems the government will already have its collapse guidebook printed , and people will be asked to obey , this will be a real also , they will mostly be playing the odds either way , as the countryside is lethal also for the un prepared .

Re : American preppers , a lot of their focus is on killing and shooting people .

Here , I would just stay away from the trouble .
They (a lot) think we don’t have guns , we do . We just get a license quite easily and lock them in a safe and don’t carry them .

I always laugh at the ideas , because most people here are not in danger of being shot . So no need for the reactive posture , most gun owners here will understand rather than going killing and stealing , you will be better off just going and shooting dinner with your gun , thats just common sense .

How far the hungry hordes will spread before they perish , hard to say , thats why the ‘larger community ‘ idea could falter .

Our government despite its nannying and over bearing controls , does a good job compared to almost all other countries at keeping on a stable sail .
People are spoilt though because of crying for help , even giving away their freedom for safety’
due to fear .

If this collapses too , Don’t know what the balance scale will be like between the lawless and the law .
So don’t count on them saving you and avoid the hordes altogether I say.

In 1929 war + pandemic + stock market collapse = depression .

Would be much worse now with things on a larger scale.

Nature being your friend and protector , will also kill off weak competition.

I also think you kinda hit the 2 biggest threats on the head with the muscly guys story ,

Biggest threat in the bush to worry about other than the eventual hunger when supplies run out is medical / injuries .

So safety and care taken is huge , risk assessment .
 

Le Loup

Rüdiger Nehberg
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Problem is the crazy number of threats ! ( Potential / likely / realistic )

1) Solar flare that cooks the earth - Very possible ! There was a large flare a few months ago that could have been seriously destructive if the Earth had been in it's path .
2) Biological ... Covid was a pimple .... And the world dealt with that pimple very poorly ... A score out of 10 ? ( 1 - 10 )
3) Chemical ... This could be anything ! From man made to natural to space born !
4) Weather - Ever more likely ! Lot's of variety to chose from .
5) Pestilence - Think , grass hoppers , mice , insects .........

Can you plan for everything ? Yes and no !
Some things , you just got to be prepare to roll with the punches . And for that , you just might need True Grit !
The person that survives is the person that refused to lie down and die !

If you really put your mind too it !
How many likely / possible scenarios can you come up with ?
One only needs to look back at history and the disasters that have been , to see the disasters that are headed our way !
Right now we are only prepping for climate change, but these preparations will also hold us in good stead for other potential disasters. But climate change is happening now, it is a sure thing, where as other possible disasters are a hit or miss.
Keith.
 

Le Loup

Rüdiger Nehberg
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Its a kind of de evoultion taking place .
What was built that was not on a sustainable base is crumbling .
Too many people ,too much selfish corrupt thinking , is it sustainable if humans found a way to harness more resources ?
Possible to an extent , though what is the point in that . Thinking they are the centre of the universe and everything should exist to serve them .

If the problem is not fixed and the best humans can do is hoard resources to ‘prep’ for a while , then try to rebuild more of the same then as far as I am concerned don’t bother saving them at all .


Its the ‘swiss cheese effect’ now that is the collapse , whether it ends in a crescendo of some huge climax I wont speculate ,

If there is laws of nature , there is laws of mathematics too , so although the greedy try to re shuffle the derivatives and engineer globalism and the stock market ,
Its failure causes tension globally for power and money , what they try to sure up as an imbalance weighs on the other side of the equation and spirals .

The Swiss cheese Is where all the holes line up at once , like where economies collapse and drag others down , where money printing causes inflation , where wars cause supply chain issues , where protectionism collapses the whole system that is being fought to defend causes its own demise fighting the mechanisms it created to exist .

let them perish I say . There is no easy way they will learn , they will have to learn the hard way . I am torn as to whether to give help here for that reason :)

The agricultural era Randall , the cities will be madness and spread out I would say when resources collapse , some will cling to the system .
Seems the government will already have its collapse guidebook printed , and people will be asked to obey , this will be a real also , they will mostly be playing the odds either way , as the countryside is lethal also for the un prepared .

Re : American preppers , a lot of their focus is on killing and shooting people .

Here , I would just stay away from the trouble .
They (a lot) think we don’t have guns , we do . We just get a license quite easily and lock them in a safe and don’t carry them .

I always laugh at the ideas , because most people here are not in danger of being shot . So no need for the reactive posture , most gun owners here will understand rather than going killing and stealing , you will be better off just going and shooting dinner with your gun , thats just common sense .

How far the hungry hordes will spread before they perish , hard to say , thats why the ‘larger community ‘ idea could falter .

Our government despite its nannying and over bearing controls , does a good job compared to almost all other countries at keeping on a stable sail .
People are spoilt though because of crying for help , even giving away their freedom for safety’
due to fear .

If this collapses too , Don’t know what the balance scale will be like between the lawless and the law .
So don’t count on them saving you and avoid the hordes altogether I say.

In 1929 war + pandemic + stock market collapse = depression .

Would be much worse now with things on a larger scale.

Nature being your friend and protector , will also kill off weak competition.

I also think you kinda hit the 2 biggest threats on the head with the muscly guys story ,

Biggest threat in the bush to worry about other than the eventual hunger when supplies run out is medical / injuries .

So safety and care taken is huge , risk assessment .
When it comes to hunting for food, many city people will have no idea what to do. I think one of our biggest threats will be the city people raiding & stealing food from those of us who are prepared in the bush. We will need to be able to protect what we have after the collapse of society, MIT have predicted society will collapse by 2040 due to climate change.
Keith.
 

Kindlling

Les Hiddins
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When it comes to hunting for food, many city people will have no idea what to do. I think one of our biggest threats will be the city people raiding & stealing food from those of us who are prepared in the bush. We will need to be able to protect what we have after the collapse of society, MIT have predicted society will collapse by 2040 due to climate change.
There was a conversation on Insight a week or 2 ago about ‘home invasion’ .

Home invaders that got dealt with by the occupants of the homes , and the laws .

Seems WA and South Australia has provisions in their law to protect the defenders of their homes , and the gist of the program seemed to be the recommendation of the discussion and lawyers that the other states should follow suit .

Look forward to that happening put the world right side up .

I could be pretty scarce myself though and hard to find to begin .
 
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