Snake Bite Kit Inadequate

Wentworth

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There are already a few snake bite threads, but...

A month or two ago I had to redo my first aid for work. We went through the snake bite pressure immobilisation bandage and it turned out that my wraps weren't overlapping enough and that my technique wasn't applying enough pressure to be effective. I'm relieved to have found this out under guidance rather than out in the bush!
Today we dug out the bandages to practice the bandaging technique in preparation for an upcoming trip. With the wraps overlapping properly, wrapping a wide layer over the bite then down to the foot and back up to the top of the leg, our three bandages weren't long enough to cover the entire leg. We picked up three 2.3m heavy crepe/ elasticised bandages and tried them out, which was plenty.

This is a long winded way of saying:
make sure that your snake bite kit is actually up to the job of covering a leg properly! I'd forgotten the correct technique in the years since the previous course.
It's added a bit of weight to the kit, but if this is what it takes to work properly, so be it.
 

Corin

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You only need enough in the party, not on every member of the party. If you have a party of 4 everyone carries 1... no worries.
 

auscraft

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I believe it is important at least once a year you should check your tecniques and equipment. Well Done Wentworth.
My kit is a Sam's splint in a sealed glad bag and marking pen, 3 bandages and clips along with paper for note taking. The plastic bag is to cover the bite site.
Also triangle bandages
 
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Wentworth

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You only need enough in the party, not on every member of the party. If you have a party of 4 everyone carries 1... no worries.
Good point. Nearly all my trips are either with Bushchef or solo, so one first aid kit and 3 bandages.
 

Arron The Archer

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You only need enough in the party, not on every member of the party. If you have a party of 4 everyone carries 1... no worries.
as long as the people with you are carrying the right first aid to begin with for eg. you rock up to where you all are going to depart
an say "OI you got ya first aid" the other people/person replies "yep got it, it's all good" so you throw yours back in your car an head off
(long part cut short)
someone gets a snake bite or breaks a leg you ask for the first aid an all they have is a few band aids, alcohol wipes an a half use tube
of betadine


so to me it pays to carry your own no matter what in your car, at the house(thats a given though) an in the bush
 

Corin

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as long as the people with you are carrying the right first aid to begin with for eg. you rock up to where you all are going to depart
an say "OI you got ya first aid" the other people/person replies "yep got it, it's all good" so you throw yours back in your car an head off
(long part cut short)
someone gets a snake bite or breaks a leg you ask for the first aid an all they have is a few band aids, alcohol wipes an a half use tube
of betadine


so to me it pays to carry your own no matter what in your car, at the house(thats a given though) an in the bush
There is no argument that being self sufficient is the goal of all bushcrafters. In my situation I walk with people who are absolutely reliable in the gear they carry and I have no issues that their first aid kit is at least as stocked as mine. (like Wentworth). If we agree to take 2 bandages each I know that it will be done.
 

Arron The Archer

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There is no argument that being self sufficient is the goal of all bushcrafters. In my situation I walk with people who are absolutely reliable in the gear they carry and I have no issues that their first aid kit is at least as stocked as mine. (like Wentworth). If we agree to take 2 bandages each I know that it will be done.
that's very true Corin i guess that's the point i was trying to make is if someone is going to leave there kit behind an rely on
the other persons kit then make sure you know them very well (as you clearly do)

it's just that i know years an years ago i went out with some mates an they "said" they had first aid with them an one of the guys
cut his leg open on a sharp rock anyway we had to use shirts as a make shift bandage
needless to say i was steaming mad at them an myself for leaving my kit behind an not making sure of the kit they had (band aids an stingoes) now though i go bush by myself so i take as much as i can especially first aid, water etc
 

Ticklebellly

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I'm not particularly worried about snakebite but I don't want to be caught out should it happen. I always carry 3 x 4 metre elastic bandages because I do not want to rely on others and I want to get the bandaging started immediately.

A little off track, I recently found this device being offered http://www.rei.com/product/407144/sawyer-extractor-pump-kit Pretty irresponsible in my view, especially since testing has shown the device to be almost completely ineffective, and use of the thing might actually do more harm than good. We are lucky in Aust that all Australian snake bites seem to be effectively treated by the broad bandage and immobilisation techniques.

Ticklebelly
 

Wentworth

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Those extractor kits are a worry. Most of the world hasn't adopted the pressure immobilisation technique that is taught in Australia, which is quite backwards.
Welcome to the forum Ticklebelly, be sure to tell us about yourself in the introductions forum
 

Templar

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Different types of snakes, different type of treatment... elapide snake (which we have in Australia) work best with the P.I.M technique, however, vipide bites are not effectivlly treated by the same technique due to the different way in which the venom works... vipide bite are necrotic (rot the flesh) where as elapide bites are Nero-toxic (affecting the Centeral Nervious system)... pim works for Australian snakes because it slows down the absorbion of toxin through the limphartic system, vipide (rattle snakes, etc) rot your flesh in place, so PIM wont work with them... something to remember when travelling outside of Australia.
 

Wentworth

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Interesting. And yet the Pressure Immobilisation is used for other stings and bites other than snakes. The lady running the first aid course said that the Australian technique has been largely ignored.
The fact that the sawyer extractor is known to be useless or worse than makes you question why they're still on the market.
 

auscraft

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Interesting. And yet the Pressure Immobilisation is used for other stings and bites other than snakes. The lady running the first aid course said that the Australian technique has been largely ignored.
The fact that the sawyer extractor is known to be useless or worse than makes you question why they're still on the market.
Units like the sawyer extractor are even been sold here in Australia under different names being told they work and without any medical support what so ever.
But when people are looking for quick fixes and have genuine fears of things it is easy for someone to make a quick dollar off those fears.
 

Wentworth

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I have been told the USA has Adopted the PIM. Willing to stand corrected this only happened last year or so.

A link to view AAFP
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2002/0401/p1367.html
Thanks for the link.
They mention hemotoxic and neurotoxic venom but don't differentiate between them when recommending the PIM as snake first aid. Does this mean that it is recommended for all snake bites? If not effective on some, does it do any harm?
 

Moondog55

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When I last did my First aid course it was pointed out that you needed a wide bandage and that 150mm was the minimum width, so I went and bought 3. So far I have never had to use them and probably never will. And this is speaking from experience as my daughter was bitten many years ago ( she was 7YO and my bandage was more than adequate) I think I mentioned this in a previous post but I always carry at least one 150mm ACE brand bandage. The new specialised compression bandage ( Can't remember the brand name ) is probably the best one and I probably need to buy a couple
 

CSGSurvival

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With the wraps overlapping properly, wrapping a wide layer over the bite then down to the foot and back up to the top of the leg, our three bandages weren't long enough to cover the entire leg.
I just had to do a refresher "applied first aid" (Use to be senior first aid) course with the SES and one thing we were told NOT to do any more was to wrap over the bite itself because it's been found that this act will actually push some of the venom up the limb closer to the core of your body... I dont want to turn this into an Im right your wrong thread because originally I was taught to wrap over the bite. But just thought I should share it.
 

Wentworth

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Hmmm... AVRU has different ideas...
Start from below the bite site and work down, THEN, back up the limb past the bite site... a little different to my own training I will admit.

AVRU (Australian Venom Research Unit) is the national authority on all things venom related.
http://www.avru.org/firstaid/firstaid_pib.html
That's what I was taught too.
 
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