Putting a micro bevel on a scandi

Wentworth

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Who adds a micro bevel to their scandi grind?

I've been doing it for a couple of years because it keeps an edge noticeably longer than a zero grind scandi. Plus it's quicker to touch up the edge.

I sharpen my scandi knives the normal way: bevel flush against the stone and then pushing the knife across the stone, edge leading from the base to the tip in one movement.
knife1.jpg knife2.jpg knife3.jpg

I'm using a waterstone in the photo for demonstration, yes it's dry in the picture!

Once I've worked both sides evenly, I lie the bevel flat against a ceramic rod.
knife4.jpg

I thin raise the spine of the knife slightly, creating a slight gap between the bevel and the rod. At this point only the very edge is touching.
knife5.jpg

I then draw the edge across the rod with no pressure, only the weight of the blade. I do five or so strokes on each side, lying the bevel flat and then tilting the blade up for each one.

I can't see any visual difference unless I angle the edge in the light. At the right angle I can see a very slight shine of the micro bevel, a fraction of a millimetre.

This is different to adding a secondary bevel to the scandi grind, which would provide much better edge holding but wouldn't be as nice to use for wood carving.
I can't feel any difference in use between a micro bevel scandi and a zero grind scandi.

Scan.jpg
Here's a hand drawn representation of a micro bevel scandi, a scandi with a secondary bevel and a zero grind scandi.
It's hard to show how small the micro bevel is, so this is only a rough approximation, but should serve to show the difference between the three. The micro bevel is in fact much finer than I can show in the comparison.

Once my knife no longer shaves hair, I repeat the micro bevel sharpening step on the ceramic rod and it puts the shaving sharp edge back on in a few seconds. I use the stones once I've had to touch up the edge 10 times or so, to avoid the microbevel becoming too defined like a secondary bevel.

I find that our Aussie hardwoods destroy the edge on my scandis, so this step helps me carve for longer before needing a sharpen.

I'm no master sharpener, but I hope this is of use to some.
 
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Dusty Miller

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That is a similar idea to chisel and hand plane blades, doner for pretty similar reasons.
 

AussiePreppers

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I started doing this too when I noticed my full scandi knives getting little chips from dirt in bark (my guess). Works a treat.

My last knife purchase came with a secondary bevel on the scandi and I absolutely hate it, so much so that it's being sent away to be reprofiled.
 

Lepmeister

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Hi all, i have been putting the mirco on but thought i would give it some testing last nigh whilst carving some fire steel grips. The micro gave a minimal reduction to the ease that the blade moved through the timber, but did seem to stay at a constant level of sharpness. Without the mirco, i could notice the increased level of ease that the blade moved, but i did need to strop the blade every 15 min os so to maintain the edge.
 

Wentworth

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Aussiepreppers, you're right about dirt taking chunks out of the edge, I don't get this happening now with a microbevel.

I bought a scandi that had a secondary bevel. I spent a few hours grinding it down to a zero grind scandi, only to discover that the angle was now too fine.
My normal scandis have an inclusive angle of 25 degrees or something. This one must have been about 15 degrees inclusive, so it cut like a laser for about five mins and then the edge would chip or roll. I ended up putting a secondary bevel back on that one. It seems like the maker went with a finer angle scandi which was more robust at the secondary bevel. All those hours of grinding away for nothing. At least it gave me practice at maintaining a constant angle :)
 

gelandangan

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I am trying this trick on my work cardboard cutting knife, a Mora Miki.
Usually I would need to sharpen it about once a week, so far after almost two weeks of use, the edge seems to still hold well.
 

Wentworth

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That's great to hear! let me know how it goes long term
 

n5750547

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Old thread but I thought I'd add my experience here rather than starting a new thread. I bought a regular and mini Condor Bushlore which both came with a micro bevel that I removed immediately as I had heard that Scandi grinds are very easy to sharpen. I have since realised that although the big bevel makes it easy to lay the knife flat on bench stones, I struggle getting a sharp edge back on these knives when I'm out camping (with my DC3 and strop). On top of that, the steel on these knives didn't seem to hold an edge for very long so I thought I'd revisit the micro bevel.

Using just the DC3, I put a slight bevel on the edge (same method described by Wentworth) and gave it a whirl over the weekend. I'm thoroughly impressed by how much longer the edge lasts now and how easily I can get it razor sharp very quickly.

Cheers
Phil
OI000167.jpg
OI000166.jpg
 

chris larrikin

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I read on a big US-based forum that the so-called "true scandi" (without a micro bevel) was an English creation and that Scandinavian knives tend to have a micro bevel or very small secondary bevel. I don't know the truth of it but I have also seen more than one person from Sweden, Norway or Finland say their knives have micro bevels for the same reason. Go figure.

One thing I have seen is that some scandis are convexed at the edge. Makes sense because you will almost invariably convex your edge hand sharpening and the convex is stronger (albeit at a less acute angle) compared to a flat grind.
 

pap11y

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I read on a big US-based forum that the so-called "true scandi" (without a micro bevel) was an English creation and that Scandinavian knives tend to have a micro bevel or very small secondary bevel. I don't know the truth of it but I have also seen more than one person from Sweden, Norway or Finland say their knives have micro bevels for the same reason. Go figure.

One thing I have seen is that some scandis are convexed at the edge. Makes sense because you will almost invariably convex your edge hand sharpening and the convex is stronger (albeit at a less acute angle) compared to a flat grind.
If you want a pure carving knife scandi is the go.. If you want to do other tasks and have edge strength/durability then a microbevel is beneficial..

Really just depends what you uses and needs are. Great write up though Wentworth..
 

chris larrikin

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If you want a pure carving knife scandi is the go.. If you want to do other tasks and have edge strength/durability then a microbevel is beneficial..

Really just depends what you uses and needs are. Great write up though Wentworth..
Out of curiosity, what is your personal preference?
 

MongooseDownUnder

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I have found with my scandi the edge is damaged more easily without a micro bevel. One thing that does make a big difference though is putting a micro bevel on with a strop, although the micro bevel is very small it still functions well to reduce edge damage.
 

pap11y

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Out of curiosity, what is your personal preference?
For me.... Multiple knives/tools :D

I will always carry a full scandi for my carving be it a woodlore-whittler-puukko-mora-spyderco bushcraft etc. I only use this for light tasks and carving..

My secondary knife is usually a flat grind or convex - think fallkniven-bark river-GSO-machete-axe. These do all the hard work..

I could get by with just a scandi but I have a lot of knives so its not really required..

If I were carving with a scandi and getting edge roll I would microbevel it or re-establish a higher degree bevel...

Note: I rarely use any of my knives for chopping. I may use then to split if required but it very rarely is.. I have a great saw that will be with me for all future trips and I find it much better for me in cutting ability vs effort..

Here's my go to tools at the moment. Knife is often changed around but saw and mini axe are now permanent fixtures in my gear

 

Ben Dono

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Good advice pap! I have a lot of tools ( toys) to pick from and just choose the right one for the task.

In the past I have just micro beveled scandi edges with a slack belt hand strop. I would work the bevels flat again when the knife needed a tune up and then back to the strop.

Chris I did read (long time ago) that our modern scandi edges are different from traditional Scandanavian style edges but that is far as the research went. My take on it is that in the past, good stones were hard to come by and very costly. Keeping them perfectly flat would have been challenging.

When ever it have seen more traditional sharpening done in developing nations around the world, I can't say I have ever seen a stone that was not dished.

Having said all that,we have an abundance of flat stones and plates to choose from now which really suits zero grind scandi.

One point that was made to me many years ago was that we can't really free hand hold the same perfect angle every single time. Free hand sharpening generally ends up with a slight convex anyway so why not focus on convex/clam shell style edges.
 

MongooseDownUnder

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For me.... Multiple knives/tools :D

I will always carry a full scandi for my carving be it a woodlore-whittler-puukko-mora-spyderco bushcraft etc. I only use this for light tasks and carving..

My secondary knife is usually a flat grind or convex - think fallkniven-bark river-GSO-machete-axe. These do all the hard work..

I could get by with just a scandi but I have a lot of knives so its not really required..

If I were carving with a scandi and getting edge roll I would microbevel it or re-establish a higher degree bevel...

Note: I rarely use any of my knives for chopping. I may use then to split if required but it very rarely is.. I have a great saw that will be with me for all future trips and I find it much better for me in cutting ability vs effort..

Here's my go to tools at the moment. Knife is often changed around but saw and mini axe are now permanent fixtures in my gear

What happened to the Bark River axe?
 

pap11y

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Glad its getting some use pap! Im loving the setup mate
Well I really need to get out more to use the GB mini more bit I love it. I really enjoy how you can use it at the star of a carving task to get rid of a lot of material.

Its not a necessity at all but easy to justify since it weighs so little..

The saw is awesome.. Theres always plenty of downed trees in the aussie bush. Not so easy to process though when they have dried. The bahco saw performs admirably but the larger bow saw is on a whole new level..
 
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