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Kizer V3 Vigor

old4570

Lofty Wiseman
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Sourced in Australia $85 bananas .
N690 blade steel .........
What is N690 steel comparable to?
N690 is an extremely ubiquitous and popular steel among knifemakers in Europe. Strength and toughness are comparable to that found on VG-10 or 154CM.
This steel has extremely good corrosion resistant properties.

Anyways , V3 Vigor . The grip is just under 10cm with a overall length of 17.5cm ( Aprox ) ..
I have nothing to complain about ! ( At this time )
The Vigor is a fidget friendly knife , bolted together straight , with good Walk N Talk ( so to speak ) .

Slicing rope with the factory edge gave me a solid 250 slice fail ..
It's really warm out there ( just hit 40.2 C ) , so will hold off on the regrind till tomorrow morning .
 

old4570

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_IGP1719.JPG
_IGP1722.JPG

This side was factory ground ok , and took little effort to clean up .
How ever !

_IGP1724.JPG
_IGP1726.JPG
This side of the blade was FUBAR !
It was like two different people had ground the bevel (?)
? Production line , one person does one side and another person does the other ?
Less set up time ?
I don't know , but it's like some one competent did one side and then a complete Noob did the other ..
50% of the blade is still FUBAR .

_IGP1730.JPG

Liners look to be metal stampings :

_IGP1735.JPG

And here is the shocker !
The Kizer V3 Vigor , is so smooth , so precise in it's action .
No play , no slop , no binding .
Fidgets like a champ ............... On shims ! Are those two white ones Teflon ?
You look under the bonnet of the Kizer and it looks Cheap .
But close the bonnet , and it looks and feels great .
The Screws ! ( Rubbish screws ) The holes for the Torx are too shallow .. ( On all the screws ) Great care is needed !

Anyways ! The front portion of the blade has been fully reground ..
Gona .... Be another hot day today and on the morrow . So maybe in the morning the Kizer will hit the rope again .
 

Randall

Richard Proenneke
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Teflon and bronze - it seems to be a common combo for knives. I don't mind washers - they tend to be on harder use knives and older knives.

I think there are many people who are inconsistent with their knife sharpening. I was the same when I used a steel many years ago - right side down slicing toward me, left side down slicing away from me both using just my right hand. I was the same with a stone. Since I've been stropping I work the blade the same using right and left hands - much more consistent result because I can see the edge shadow. I can imagine someone on the belt just flipping the knife controlling mostly with their right hand only - edge facing up and edge facing down.
 

old4570

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With belt sharpening !
It seems the major problem is some one lingering to long in one spot .. Causing a dip or valley in the bevel ..
Also skill would have something to do with it . I think in the factory , they might be jigged ( the blade ) in a fixture .
Still , linger in one spot too long and the material cant be put back .
Poorly ground bevels also look to perform poorly , so it's not a free lunch .
 

Randall

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they might be jigged ( the blade ) in a fixture
In your experience, and definitely mine, I don't think they're jigged. We would be seeing consistent edge angles if that was so. All the decent knife reviewers online always complain about the edge bevel. I have seen some custom knife makers (US based) using a sharpening system with set angles - those knives are expensive though. Definitely made with passion.
 

Randall

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Awesome. I'm guessing the case knives video is a typical setup. Great to see the dude using both hands on the belt while creating the bevel. "No two knives are the same", that has been a mantra with knife enthusiasts, even down to heat treat etc. Their production seems typical of manufacturers like benchmade - they're really not huge outfits, and case is one of the bigger pocket knife manufacturers in the US. I'm guessing Henckels dwarf case and benchmade in sales - compliments of the food industry, higher unit price (than case) and being bang in the middle of the EU. They also have the luxury of not many different designs. Consider benchmade and case - these dudes have to constantly come up with new models and designs and their range is huge. Many models become discontinued.

The case scenario would explain what most people find in their new knife bevels - all those inconsistencies.

Kitchen knives - I'm not surprised. We have reasonable kitchen knives - they are the one thing that have had a consistent bevel. They are a lot easier to maintain, as you'd know, uniform high flat grind, not much belly, lots of room from the clamp to the sharpening surface means clearance. Easy to set up in a jig for sharpening. Their designs are consistent too - not much has changed in the shape and design of kitchen knives. All this makes it easier and cheaper to setup a factory for more automation that will probably never change (a few basic knife shapes), rather than using people to work with many different designs and models and even steel types.

It is a great advertisement for Henckels, just the heat treat alone. I have a 440c knife that is one of the hardest knives I own. A cheap ganzo that was probably in the center of the tray during heat treat on a good day (Monday?) at the factory :D
 
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old4570

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Kizer reground and put to the rope .
Ok , got to 400 slices and I would call it a = Just barely a Pass .. 400 is the raged edge of a pass and 450 would be a definite FAIL .

Got to give credit to Kizer , they know how to bolt a knife together .
I guess most of that money might have gone to the blade steel ( I hope ) , N690 .
Was that my first N690 ? At least it made it to 400 .
I would have been disappointed if not .

I like the Kizer , except for the terrible factory bevel .. One side of the blade was ok , but the other side .. It was rubbish !
Again , at least the edge retention test pulled a decent number . * ( reground bevel )
 

old4570

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Awesome. I'm guessing the case knives video is a typical setup. Great to see the dude using both hands on the belt while creating the bevel. "No two knives are the same", that has been a mantra with knife enthusiasts, even down to heat treat etc. Their production seems typical of manufacturers like benchmade - they're really not huge outfits, and case is one of the bigger pocket knife manufacturers in the US. I'm guessing Henckels dwarf case and benchmade in sales - compliments of the food industry, higher unit price (than case) and being bang in the middle of the EU. They also have the luxury of not many different designs. Consider benchmade and case - these dudes have to constantly come up with new models and designs and their range is huge. Many models become discontinued.

The case scenario would explain what most people find in their new knife bevels - all those inconsistencies.

Kitchen knives - I'm not surprised. We have reasonable kitchen knives - they are the one thing that have had a consistent bevel. They are a lot easier to maintain, as you'd know, uniform high flat grind, not much belly, lots of room from the clamp to the sharpening surface means clearance. Easy to set up in a jig for sharpening. Their designs are consistent too - not much has changed in the shape and design of kitchen knives. All this makes it easier and cheaper to setup a factory for more automation that will probably never change (a few basic knife shapes), rather than using people to work with many different designs and models and even steel types.

It is a great advertisement for Henckels, just the heat treat alone. I have a 440c knife that is one of the hardest knives I own. A cheap ganzo that was probably in the center of the tray during heat treat on a good day (Monday?) at the factory :D
I love these vids ... Knife factories ...
Doing a jigged knife sharpener , should be relatively simple ..
Even a knife sharpening robot .. If your going to do thousands of blades every year or more (?) ...
Very few humans could outperform a jig or a robot for a nice straight even bevel .
 

Randall

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I love these vids ... Knife factories ...
Doing a jigged knife sharpener , should be relatively simple
In the pistol world cz was or still is one of the favorites for comp shooting (shadow 9mm) - the one where you race from target to target in different scenarios. Their rifles are also well regarded. I saw a video of their pistol factory, and was surprised at how hands on and basic it was. It's the same with Lithgow firearms. I think it must be a big expense to configure a jig for each blade design. Any single reasonably sized manufacturer has many designs and models. Compare this to one belt and one dude to sharpen all the various designs and models. Factories like this tend to work to orders; 200 of these, 160 of those etc. They react to market forces. Some models just die out - as we know, due to lack of interest. What the Case video shows seems to be the standard - it's what I've seen from other manufacturers. Case are kind of surprising though - they are one of the few modern pocket knife manufacturers that have been making the same design for decades. Perhaps that's my ignorance and even their knives are quite different today. That henckel video is the first I've seen of jigged sharpening for a larger operation - and I'm guessing that's because those jigs get used over and over again, every day for years. Same model knives with very little change in blade geometry.
 
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