Do you think as Bushcrafters we should be concerned with the state of our environment?

Do you think as Bushcrafters we should be concerned with the state of our environment?


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MongooseDownUnder

Richard Proenneke
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I think for most people they see the smoke from a fire and call it pollution. They do not see the smoke from their gas fire or the pollution caused by its mining and the mining of all the materials to make their stove and their gas canisters which will end up in landfill. I’m fairly confident the pollution from a wood fire would be far less overall than that of a gas stove, not to mention most of the pollution from a wood fire is carbon and trees need carbon to grow.
 

Pyromage

Malcolm Douglas
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I think for most people they see the smoke from a fire and call it pollution. They do not see the smoke from their gas fire or the pollution caused by its mining and the mining of all the materials to make their stove and their gas canisters which will end up in landfill. I’m fairly confident the pollution from a wood fire would be far less overall than that of a gas stove, not to mention most of the pollution from a wood fire is carbon and trees need carbon to grow.
adding to that,
charcoal can be used as a fertilizer, as it helps reduce nutrient leaching

i have a giant eucalyptus tree hanging over into m backyard,
so the 3-4 times a year that i light a campfire in the backyard,
i gather up all the twigs and dry leaves,
and then throw all leftover ashes and charcoal into the compost heap.


the other option is it going to landfill (until the recycling bid system came)
 

Blake

Nest In the Hills
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Great discussion. I'm in agreement with pretty much everything here. I'm certainly concerned about the state of the environment and try to set an example and encourage people to do the right thing without being a pest.

When it comes to campfires I do cook on coals when i can but obviously only collect dry fallen timber and keep my fires manageable and proportionate to what I need them for. I will admit the cutting of green timber for firewood drives me pretty batty, I don't need to tell members on here why. If its a fire ban of course I always respect that and use a stove. If I'm cooking off track or outside a campground I always leave no trace of my fire and camp when leaving.

On the same side I also get quite torn on the closing of areas to the public. Its a catch 22. I know why they do it when you see some of the damage and litter that grubs leave in the bush but.....I don't see how shutting people out will help them gain a love and care for our natural spaces. It comes down to respect for the land and education. I think sometimes it must be cheaper and easier to just close it off rather than educate and monitor. As a whole I think the impact of campers and hikers on the environment is minimal compared with industry.

The fundamental problem for me has always been population growth. Growth of all aspects of humanity drives everything in this world because the population is always growing. The issue is that we still for now only have this planet and everything comes back to resources.....everything. In a world with finite resources it is always going to end badly. The most fundamental and important change that governments could make to the world is to put in place effective population growth initiatives. Yes, I know. Its a difficult one and it brings with it its own problems but for me that's the first step of many to protect the planet and its future.
 

Steve

Mors Kochanski
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We seem to have infinite resources according to our so called government, but at what cost? Im devastated that this Adani mine is going ahead as planned, they are going to destroy the great Australian artesian basin for what, the latest Toyota, Kia and Hyundai etc. Its twofold this mining, they want the precious metals and the water, trust me when i say this, 50 years from now, drinkable and potable water will be a scarce commodity due to the rampant abuse of the environment to plunder so called riches for technological gains.

 
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Edward

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We seem to have infinite resources according to our so called government, but at what cost? Im devastated that this Adani mine is going ahead as planned, they are going to destroy the great Australian artesian basin for what, the latest Toyota, Kia and Hyundai etc. Its twofold this mining, they want the precious metals and the water, trust me when i say this, 50 years from now, drinkable and potable water will be a scarce commodity due to the rampant abuse of the environment to plunder so called riches for technological gains.



I agree. I laugh when I see mining commercials full of nice rural landscapes, and miners hanging with locals and Aborigines - its all a farce, and its faux. And our entire power industry is also Chinese owned!? On the Australian land that has been sold to the Chinese they dig up our Boab trees with front end loaders and take them back to China, when they leave our land they take everything and leave nothing. Look it up, its true. Nice people. Its all for monetary gain and its criminal as far as I'm concerned ;)
 

Randall

Ray Mears
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I think you have over thought this. Can you back up all your claims in this post? How about some solid proof rather than your word for it.
I thought it was kind of obvious. Even a city dweller must be aware of these things. You hear and take notice or you don't. I believe that you are aware of this too. Our numbers are increasing. People have to live somewhere. The term "urban sprawl". More supermarkets and infrastructure for those people. More resources used just for living, but also people are travelling more and further just to get to work because they live so far from where they work. Just the highway / road infrastructure that enters melbourne from the west is huge - all that area used to be urban bushland. It is square kilometers. The pockets of bush that exist are being crowded around by people. Everyone takes from these areas - wood for fires, kids making tracks on their bmx bikes (I fully understand this and applaud it :) ), people walking their dogs (and if they're off lead they will harass wallabies), cats hunting through there and wiping out the lizard populations. Lizards are the first to go - well frogs are already mostly gone. My mother's cat used to hunt brushy tail possums when all the trees were cut down for more housing close by. No, I really haven't over thought it, I've just given it some thought.
 
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Steve

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I thought it was kind of obvious. Even a city dweller must be aware of these things. You hear and take notice or you don't. I believe that you are aware of this too. Our numbers are increasing. People have to live somewhere. The term "urban sprawl". More supermarkets and infrastructure for those people. More resources used just for living, but also people are travelling more and further just to get to work because they live so far from where they work. Just the highway / road infrastructure that enters melbourne from the west is huge - all that area used to be urban bushland. It is square kilometers. The pockets of bush that exist are being crowded around by people. Everyone takes from these areas - wood for fires, kids making tracks on their bmx bikes (I fully understand this and applaud it :) ), people walking their dogs (and if they're off lead they will harass wallabies), cats hunting through there and wiping out the lizard populations. Lizards are the first to go - well frogs are already mostly gone. My mother's cat used to hunt brushy tail possums when all the trees were cut down for more housing close by. No, I really haven't over thought it, I've just given it some thought.
Look i agree with you somewhat but saying we are a plague of the worst kind and lumping everyone in that same basket even yourself is a bit silly dont you think? Denying yourself and others of an ancestral right of a campfire, fishing, hunting and general bush craft would make us all drones to the gubbiment. Look i care for the environment, its big corporations who dont, not your average joe blo down the road. The people in power who make the decisions on what to destroy in the name of "progress" are the ones you need to have a winge to.

And in regards missing flora and fauna in your original post, i live in Queensland and from some of the areas ive been it is absolutely teaming with all the things you say are missing in your area. Not everywhere in this great country of ours is lost, but i do agree a lot of it is being mistreated. Population control would be an answer, we need to better look at how our infrastructure is being handled in comparison to how the environment is faring, but many on the left would say that is racist and bigoted. We need to stop all immigration for awhile, give it a moratorium of 20 - 30 years or more. If the country cant provide for itself with what we have now then we are not trying hard enough and our interests for the long term is just a pipe dream. Population control wont be even remotely considered due to the fact our politicans are in bed with most big corporations who need ever more cheap labour from overseas and the politicians need more voters at any cost. So the world we live in now is one where a Toyota or an Iphone, Samsung whatever is more valuable than a tract of bushland and the well being of the flora and fauna, not to mention the humans who somehow might try to live responsibly alongside all this.
 
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Randall

Ray Mears
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When I say plague, I mean our population. We can refine a lot of our practices and economise, recycle etc, but ultimately it won't matter unless we do something about population growth. Good people and bad people all contribute to this, unfortunately. Our population may be controlled by other means; the more of us there are and the closer we live together increases the danger of pandemic. This danger is just going to keep increasing. It has been a real fear in the scientific community for a long time. Remember the swine flu and avian flu scares? Or ebola when just that one man returned to America infected? They had him in isolation, knowing how infectious and deadly ebola was, all sorts of protocols in place, and a nurse still got infected. The US was very anxious there for a while. Many people in China opt to wear face masks - I used to think it was because of pollution, but for most of them it is the fear of avian flu. I'm really all for hunting, not ducks, but feral animals which we have in abundance - so that's a win win of a bad situation. Although there are many social obstructions to hunting now, or firearm ownership in general. Really, when you look at most of our problems, they can be traced back to our growing numbers. Even our social problems like racism and religious intolerance and escalating violence (this has effected firearm ownership) - in a way, we're already in a pressure cooker.
 
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koalaboi

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This thread seems to have gone off track for the moment. The question is:

"Should bushcrafters be concerned with the state of the environment?"

Without meaning to be disrespectful, I find the question silly. We just this week learned that the world could lose up to 1,000,000 species to extinction in the very near future. It could include us. Every human being on the planet should be concerned about the state of the environment. We are the ones who have the responsibility of guardianship of the environment. We have the responsibility to pass it on in healthy condition to future generations and yet we seem bent on destroying so much for short term gains. We have nowhere else to go.

I reckon Leunig says it well below.



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